On Our Friends in Seattle
I really have little left to say about the atrocious, dastardly haps in Seattle over the past two seasons. It is an absolute shame, and I continue to feel every emotion I conjured up in this column on the subject back in March.
I hope Seattle beats the odds and gets a new team soon. And I hope the New Sonics beat the snot out of Clay Bennett's team by 50 every time the Un-Sonics dare visit the Emerald City.
1 recs |
73
comments
Read Related
Comments
I heard there's a real possibility the Kings could move to Seattle
...If the new arena deal doesn’t fall through, since Seattle now has a vacant, unused NBA arena.
by CloudyEyes on Jul 2, 2008 11:01 PM PDT 0 recs
Along with a loyal and much bigger market than in Sacramento.
by CloudyEyes on
Jul 2, 2008 11:02 PM PDT
up
0 recs
no there isn't
Stern said the main reason the team won’t be there is because they are unable to build an arena.
Why would they send a team with an incredibly loyal fanbase to a city with a smaller arena and a weakened fanbase.
Makes no sense.
by kingsTV on
Jul 3, 2008 12:56 AM PDT
up
0 recs
Maybe
It could turn into a race for whomever builds a new stadium first?
Just throwing it out there.
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 6:36 AM PDT
up
0 recs
Good
We deserve to lose the kings if these idiots dont get the arena deal done. Seattle dared them to move and now you get what you ask for. If we really want to keep this team, cal expo is it, otherwise the only thing in town is gonna be the rivercats, and disney on ice.
Lakers suck!
by Doubysmoker on Jul 2, 2008 11:15 PM PDT 0 recs
I feel for the fans but....
even today I feel like the politicians only took this thing to court for financial gain. If Seattle is to get a team, it will come after the 5 year period so they can bilk another 30 million out of Bennett and then maybe a new regime can garner the support to bring a new team back in. I pray that KJ can come in and help get something done here in Sac because the door is wide open once this ridiculous Cal Expo deal dies.
Sorry Seattle fans, next time chose your politicians more carefully and stop buying Star Bucks because if the previous owner did his homework he could have predicted this whole mess. This situation exposed so many aspects of how the NBA is nothing but a shitty nasty business. Bennett, the politicians of Seattle, Star Fucks and David Stern teamed up to screw the general public. I have officially lost all respect for David Stern, the last couple of months have exposed him a nothing but a fraudulent weasel who has bought his own line of bullshit.
Sorry for the profanity but this is a very touchy situation. I see us, as Kings fans facing this same type of extinction very soon. The Las Vegas Kings will be a reality if someone doesn’t step up and build this stadium.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on Jul 2, 2008 11:40 PM PDT 0 recs
meh...
....if Washington was better at holding a team then they would have kept it. Clay is living the dream we all wish we could. He and his friends wanted a team in OKC and they went and bought one. They all got sick of having to fly to sit courtside, so they went and bought a team. Good for them.
by Red Reign on Jul 3, 2008 12:42 AM PDT 0 recs
Can we
Be moved to the NW division with Minnesota, Denver, Portland and Utah?
We’d have a shot of winning the division in the near future.
Boozer could leave, Minnesota will suck, Denver is in decline, Portland are still young.
BOOK IT!
by kingme18 on Jul 3, 2008 9:14 AM PDT 0 recs
How about just moving to the WAC?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on
Jul 3, 2008 9:30 AM PDT
up
0 recs
ha love the spirit...but
not a chance.
the divisions will stay the same for the time being.
and even if you did move to our division (portlands) we’re not as young as our age suggests.
Have you seen our Rookie center!!! j/k
na, this whole seattle thing stinks to high heavin, and I pray that the kings stay where they are….
DAM L.A. DAM THEM TO HELL!!!!!
The Faith
by faith on
Jul 3, 2008 10:02 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Kramer is shaking his head
Should have had Jackie Chiles from Seinfeld put that deal together, someone would have come away with free Starbucks coffee for life.
by LiquidPolio on Jul 3, 2008 10:01 AM PDT 1 recs
this sort of reminds me
of when they were threatening to move the giants to tampa bay. really? you’re going to leave san francisco, one of the premier cities in the U.S., if not the world, for tampa freaking bay? nothing against OKC (or tampa for that matter,) but the idea of leaving the city of seattle without pro basketball is absolutely absurd.
david stern is a snake and a coward. i don’t want to believe in insane-sounding conspiracy theories about game 7 setups and large-market favoritism in the playoffs, but after watching his callous, cynical, anti-populist behavior with the unfolding of this outright atrocity, how can i resist wondering?
he’s losing his grip over his public, and, like all tyrants, the more the power leaves his hands, the tighter he grasps and the more secretive and sinister he becomes. i cannot WAIT to see this bastard deposed. the future of the nba as a league people can trust is unequivocally at stake.
by beevenator on Jul 3, 2008 10:30 AM PDT 0 recs
I think you people have generally missed the point in this whole discussion which is fine
But, I personally feel Stern is using Seattle as a personal example of what to do when you tell him no. You do not fuck with Napoleon at any time for any reason. Even when warranted.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 3, 2008 10:31 AM PDT 0 recs
You guys...
....are really this fired up over a company moving its regional headquarters?
by Red Reign on Jul 3, 2008 10:38 AM PDT 0 recs
Maybe...
...but no one owes the city of Seattle anything. A professional franchise of any sport does NOT belong to the city; it belongs to the owners. If the Maloofs wanted to move the Kings I would be sad, but not pissy or bitter.
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 10:45 AM PDT
up
0 recs
Lost in all of this is women’s basketball in Seattle. That Kristen O’Neill is one hot minx.
by LiquidPolio on
Jul 3, 2008 10:58 AM PDT
up
0 recs
i'm not sure that moving is the issue
i think it’s more about the way the whole thing went down. there was so much deception and manipulation that i think pissy bitterness is, at the very least, warranted.
if the maloofs moved the kings, god forbid, it would be a lot different. they’ve proven that they legitimately want to keep the team here, and leaving would not be their first choice. the bennett group clearly bought the team with the intention of highjacking it. if that’s not reason to be pissed off, i’m not sure what is.
by beevenator on
Jul 3, 2008 11:01 AM PDT
up
0 recs
When Clay...
....et al bought the team. OKC was already shopping for a team. They had a brand spankin new arena. If anyone believed the Sonics were staying in Seattle then that person is truly naive.
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 11:27 AM PDT
up
0 recs
Question
If you’d be so ho-hum about the Kings leaving, then why are you here right now? The NBA season ended weeks ago and the Kings’ season ended long before that! This is where the crazies (highest compliment, everyone) go during the off-season, and your “company moving it’s regional headquarters” comment reeks of fairweather fandom.
Since you’re actually posting here in JULY I can assume this is not the case, which makes me wonder where the line is for you.
And just for the record, I’m also bitter that the Sacramento Drive-In is closing, and I have much less attachment to it than the Kings . . . but it’s the only drive-in close by, and soon it will be gone, so I imagine I’d be at least as upset about the Kings leaving (I’m upset about the Sonics moving as it is, why not take Memphis instead?)
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 11:17 AM PDT
up
0 recs
I am...
...diehard. My family has had season tickets since the Kings moved to Sac when I was 5 and I went to about 30 games a year growing up. I would be very sad if they left. That being said, there is a separation between being a fan and understanding the business behind sports. That is all I am trying to say.
Wait! They are closing the drive-in?
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 11:33 AM PDT
up
0 recs
haha
Theyve been saying their closing the drive in for 10 years its still there..so many cynics here i can’t help but feel like alot of fans are internet fans and don’t live in the city…I don’t want the kings to leave and i’d be so happy with a cal expo stadium (in a perfect world) but theres always those old cowtown people in the city complaining about increased traffic…
Just for the record Bennets just as big a scumbag as Mr. Stern
by LivesInSac on
Jul 3, 2008 11:43 AM PDT
up
0 recs
From the Bee (May 11, 2008):
Sacramento 6’s demise appeared imminent last week when the Sacramento County Board of Supervisors assembled to give the replacement project its final blessing. The five-member board already had given its preliminary approval, and two supervisors interviewed before Tuesday’s hearing said it was a done deal.
I’ve gone a couple of times in the last few months, and even the employees are saying this is the final summer. If you’re in the area, go while you can . . . it’s the end of an era.
BTW, I live in the city (I guess that makes me an old cowtown person?) and the Capital City Freeway traffic problem needs to be fixed whether or not a new arena gets built at Cal Expo, but I’d like to see it end up there as well.
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 12:28 PM PDT
up
0 recs
And...
....I never said I would be ho-hum. I actually just stated a different emotion of unrest. Sad vs. pissy/bitter.
And the reason they didn’t go after Memphis is because they play in one of the top 3 facilities in the league.
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 11:44 AM PDT
up
0 recs
i think maybe you're confusing pissy/bitter
with the emotion that’s actually on display here: outrage.
by beevenator on
Jul 3, 2008 11:57 AM PDT
up
0 recs
for the record.
seattle keeps it’s “supersonics” name, and their colors….
so they did keep something from the deal and earned that much
The Faith
by faith on
Jul 3, 2008 10:04 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Outrage?
How did you feel when the Kings left KC-Omaha? Or Rochester?
And don’t say its different. Those moves were driven by business and so was this deal.
by Red Reign on Jul 3, 2008 12:02 PM PDT 0 recs
I think you're confusing the point
Teams move. It happens. I don’t think anyone here is disputing that point at all.
I think the outrage expressed on behalf of Seattle is how this happened.
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 12:16 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Point taken
My thing is that everyone is talking about how great a market is and how awesome the fans are. How come Seattle has been in the bottom third of the league in reported attendance since before Clay’s group bought the team?
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 12:19 PM PDT
up
0 recs
and shady...
....business deals happen all the time. I’m not sure its worth getting worked up about to the point you are “outraged.”
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 12:20 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Isn't that
EXACTLY what you should do when “shady business deals” happen? Were people just blowing things out of proportion with Enron?
I don’t think that people should be less outraged, I think that people should be more outraged, and not just about basketball franchises moving.
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 12:30 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Really?
You are comparing the Sonics move to Enron? Really? I know we have a long weekend coming up, but you can’t be serious.
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 12:35 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Dude, are you slow??
Nobody is saying this is a catastrophe on the lines of Enron. But who determines where the line is on shady business deals?
You? Lord help us…
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
by otis29 on
Jul 3, 2008 12:38 PM PDT
up
0 recs
From an education...
...standpoint I can probably run circles around you. I’m not sure how you can read smg’s comment of “Were people just blowing things out of proportion with Enron?” and not think it was a comparison.
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 12:47 PM PDT
up
0 recs
"Internet Brainiac"
Just as bad as the “Internet Toughguy”. Commence the running of circles!
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
by otis29 on
Jul 3, 2008 12:50 PM PDT
up
0 recs
I'm kind of excited for this....
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on
Jul 5, 2008 10:56 AM PDT
up
0 recs
Actually
I was directly comparing “shady business deals” with Enron. I didn’t mention the Sonics or Seattle in that post at all. The closest I came to was this:
I think that people should be more outraged, and not just about basketball franchises moving.
Note: franchises, plural. Maybe I should have gone a step further back and said “sports” instead of “basketball”.
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 12:50 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Thanks for the assist Otis
That’s EXACTLY what I was getting at.
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 12:48 PM PDT
up
0 recs
I understand...
...your point. I don’t think you truly meant it as a comparison, but thats how it was written.
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 12:50 PM PDT
up
0 recs
I'm still...
....waiting for a rationale of why Clay and his friends couldn’t move the team regardless of whether it was “shady.”
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 12:54 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Then maybe you're missing the point
Of course they “could” because they just did. Nobody is saying it’s not possible, but that doesn’t mean that because you can do something that you should.
Clay’s a world-class sleazebag, but the one who should get the scorn for this is David Stern, who’s job it is to maintain stability for the entire league. Backroom deals like this (Clay & Stern are buddies, and Stern publicly backed Seattle while helping Clay with the OKC move at the same time) are bad for the league and it’s image.
The fact that a good fanbase got screwed in the process just adds the emotional piece that gets people to speak up about it. A lesser fanbase would have done nothing.
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 12:59 PM PDT
up
0 recs
to me
this argument really isn’t about bennett being a scumbag, self-evident as that may be. the outrage i feel is less towards he and his team and more towards the league and david stern (and, by extension, the other owners, maloofs unfortunately included) for aiding and abetting this move, while simultaneously abusing and chastising the people of seattle (who, by the way, ponied up for stadium adjustments something like 14 years ago. how often can a fan base be asked to eat that cost?) who, in any reasonable estimation, have done nothing wrong. this is not some sort of high-minded referendum on property rights. i’m not sure what gave you that idea.
by beevenator on
Jul 3, 2008 12:59 PM PDT
up
0 recs
i'd have to agree with smg
i think the argument that because they happen all the time they shouldn’t be viewed as outrageous shines a light on a much larger cultural cancer that’s been developing over the past hundred or so years, namely complacence.
by beevenator on
Jul 3, 2008 12:42 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Not if you look at % of tickets sold
That’s a small building they play in. If you look at % of seats sold, they are in the upper tier of NBA franchises year after year.
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
by otis29 on
Jul 3, 2008 12:25 PM PDT
up
0 recs
So...
....they couldn’t sell out a small arena in a major market. Your point?
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 12:27 PM PDT
up
0 recs
My point
Is that taking “reported attendence” at face value without looking a little deeper is sloppy analysis.
How many times did they sell out individual games over those years when they could have sold 1,000 or 2,000 more tickets per game? How would that change the overall numbers?
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
by otis29 on
Jul 3, 2008 12:32 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Additionally
Seattle is the 14th largest media market in the US…not exactly what I would call a “major market”.
And if we are talking about ticket sales alone, you should be withholding judgment for a few years, and seeing where OKC is on ticket sales after the honeymoon period is over.
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
by otis29 on
Jul 3, 2008 12:35 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Reported attendance...
...in itself is a sloppy number. It is always an overshot and usually based on a pre-arranged formula the President uses to appease ownership. That is why I used the term “reported.”
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 12:41 PM PDT
up
0 recs
My argument...
....really isn’t based on whether OKC or Seattle is a better market for basketball. It is the owner’s right to move the team. No one should be outraged about it.
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 12:43 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Duh
Other than the fact Bennett wanted to break a lease contract. Owners have a right to move teams, it’s not illegal. Sports teams that have resided in a city for 40 years and part of it’s rich history and culture cannot be categorized as just a “business”.
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
by blzrfan on
Jul 3, 2008 2:39 PM PDT
up
0 recs
So...
when a company like Blue Diamond holds the city of Sacramento hostage for tax and other benefits in order to remain here, and is part of Sacramento’s rich history and culture, is there any difference?
This happens every day with businesses. The larger they are, the more they can, and typically will, ask for. Of course, you probably won’t find too many diehard Blue Diamond fans that would be crushed by them relocating (although their employees would), but at the end of the day it’s still a business.
That said, sports teams rely on their relationship with their fans and the city they’re in more so than any other business (that I can think of). Not sure how that changes the picture, or if it really does, but it’s certainly a unique type of business.
by cabz on
Jul 3, 2008 7:17 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Delivery of product?
If Blue Diamond left Sacramento, the ability for its customers to enjoy their product would remain unchanged. The same cannot be said for the Kings, whose customers could no longer see games live and may not even be able to even watch them on television.
Also, while Blue Diamond is an important part of the economy of Sacramento, I don’t think I’d classify it as part of the culture of “The City of Trees”.
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 9:11 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Exactly
The fabrications that have been hoisted by the NBA and the new ownership group are downright insulting to anyone with a freaking conscience.
At least any David Stern fans that think he really gives a shit about the fans of the NBA are getting their reality check. He’s in the owners pocket, period.
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
by otis29 on
Jul 3, 2008 12:19 PM PDT
up
0 recs
i also take exception
with the assertion that this deal was driven by business. i argue that it was not. i’m not saying the sonics weren’t losing money; clearly they were. what i’m saying is that the team was purchased with the intent of moving it, which i find terrible.
by beevenator on
Jul 3, 2008 12:44 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Right
Moving from Seattle to OKC is just a great business decision.
/sarcam
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
by blzrfan on
Jul 3, 2008 2:28 PM PDT
up
0 recs
If an owner...
....of a business wants to purchase said business and move it closer to home for any reason, then in my mind, it is driven by business. Whether it is just because the owner and his friends want to enjoy that business and it’s fruits is irrelevant.
by Red Reign on Jul 3, 2008 12:49 PM PDT 0 recs
Is it really a business decision?
If my kid liked Disneyland and I bought it (I’m rich in this scenario, btw) and moved it piece-by-piece to Sacramento so that he could play there whenever he wanted, is that a “business” decision?
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 12:54 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Depends...
....are you going to continue to seek revenue from that decision or is Disneyland now closed to the public? I’m pretty sure Clay and his friends are going to keep charging people to go to the games. I’m pretty sure they are going to keep charging for $10 beers.
They want their business more convenient to them and to enjoy it themselves.
by Red Reign on Jul 3, 2008 12:59 PM PDT 0 recs
I'm sorry
I find that argument weak.
A business decision would be to do a nationwide study to find the most profitable place to relocate the franchise if it were to be moved, or to invest in a new structure in Seattle if that market proved to be better than the alternatives (“it takes money to make money”, and all that). They bought the team with the sole intention of moving it to their hometown.
The Disneyland analogy is a perfect example of that. Why would I move Disneyland to Sacramento instead of somewhere with more people . . . because that’s where my kid is. Clay could run his basketball “business” from anywhere; there’s absolutely no need for it to be near his home from a business perspective.
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 1:04 PM PDT
up
0 recs
I'm beginning...
...to think that we have different views of the scope of the term “business.”
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 1:11 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Timing?
His decision to move the Sonics to OKC predated his business connection to the franchise. It wasn’t a “business” decision, it was a “personal” one.
Once he (er, his group) bought the team, everything after that was a justification for doing so.
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 1:34 PM PDT
up
0 recs
I agree...
...with you to a certain extent. The reason they bought a basketball team is because they liked basketball, wanted a toy and wanted one in OKC. We should all be so fortunate to have the means to do so.
However, it makes business sense to have your business close to you. I would say it is 60/40. Again that is just my opinion. I certainly didn’t intend to spark a conversation where I was called slow.
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 1:41 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Another point
I believe that owning a sports franchise isn’t equal to owning any other business, which is where I think we disagree.
There have been many owners who don’t live local to their franchise . . . it even seems like the Maloofs spend more time in Vegas than Sacramento, so that argument doesn’t hold water.
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 2:01 PM PDT
up
0 recs
The argument...
...holds water. It may not to you, but it holds water to me.
There are different kinds of owners of professional franchises and their involvement varies. If Clay et al want to be involved in their team, then it does make sense for that team to be in OKC.
by Red Reign on
Jul 3, 2008 2:11 PM PDT
up
0 recs
OK
From a personal standpoint, it does make sense. From a business standpoint, what professional involvement can an owner have being close that he can’t from afar?
You can have the last word, I’m out.
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 2:16 PM PDT
up
0 recs
Schultz To Blame
I think Bennett lied, but I also don’t think it took a genius to figure out what he was going to do. If you own a dog, and a guy who runs a dog fighting ring comes to you to buy it, do you tell him he needs to make a concerted effort to love and care for the dog? No…you wait for someone else to come by! Schultz sold this team to the highest bidder, knowing there was a good chance this could happen, and is upset about it after he got his money.
I think Schultz, Bennett, and the fans all had a chance to do the right thing, and none of them decided to do so. Unfortunately, for all involved, Bennett had the upper hand.
by LiquidPolio on Jul 3, 2008 1:45 PM PDT 0 recs
I agree
But I don’t see exactly what chance the fans had once Bennett bought the team, and they had no say in the sale either.
As a matter of fact, I think that Seattle in general did the right thing by not caving to new ownership. Stern himself praised the publicly funded renovations 14(?) years ago, and now talks about what a dump the stadium is. How often does the public have to give money to a franchise to keep them around? How is that a good thing? Would it be a good thing if teams just hopped from city to city to collect the profits from public funding? I’m sad to say that reminds me of the opening of Baseketball.
by smgmatt on
Jul 3, 2008 1:49 PM PDT
up
0 recs
What about the fans?
I can understand the situation from a business perspective but I think what most people react to is the emotional loss of people of Seattle. Those fans who grew up with this team and that had an emotional investment in the Sonics. You can talk all about attendance, revenues, losses, or whatever you want, but you can’t forget that for thousands of people this basketball team meant more than just that. It feels like some bully, only because he’s bigger and stronger (and richer), came and took away something you value a lot. Owners can do whatever they want with their businesses but that doesn’t mean that we can’t relate and feel bad for those who are negatively affected by this decision.
To make the situation worse, David Stern played along and didn’t seem to care for these people. As many have said, it is his way of setting an example for future cities. If they are not willing to cooperate and go along with HIS plan, their team will be on their way out. It’s a shame… it truly is.
by eduardo_m7 on Jul 3, 2008 2:04 PM PDT 0 recs
Good Lord!
I just got home. Reading this thread was like reading the Wall Street Journal. My head hurts real bad. I’m going to go read “Marmaduke” and “Family Circus” until the pain goes away.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - T


